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Post by psptitanfan on Jan 18, 2012 19:22:17 GMT -5
I would just like to thank Teflon for finding this and Eva for the analysis! A great find that may be able to open new opportunities for Arceus?? I will try this ASAP and post results....Please leave your opinions/ideas here!
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Post by mimiroru on Jan 18, 2012 21:52:59 GMT -5
Teflon found this, not me.
From what can be seen, it looks like he's inputting complex calculations into the Poketch's calculator app at an inhuman speed whilst cycling in the void. It seems to allow the player to bypass the void's South East walls, and enter the real Sinnoh at certain coordinates, without travelling 65,000 steps to a Fake Sinnoh. Upon saving and resetting in what appears to be a blank void area, it will reappear as the area in real Sinnoh, with partially loaded graphics. Reloading the overworld screen via menu or whatever fixes the graphics.
We can see that cstrakm uses this technique three times in his TAS. The first save and reset lands his player on right of the signpost next to Stark Mountain's entrance, to catch the lv55 Rhydon. The second time he uses it lands the player one step left to the entrance of the cave in the middle of Celestial Town, which a Plasma Grunt is normally blocking, to obtain Surf. The third time he uses it is to reload at one step above the Pokemon League entrance.
While the first set of calculations appear to be very complex and impossible to perform on a cartridge whilst continuously cycling through the void, the second and third time calculations look much simpler, and provided the same effect can be produced at a much slower pace, all of them could probably be done without emulator tools.
There are numerous factors to consider before we can make any use of this though. The TAS is done in a JP version of Diamond which has the E4 Surf glitch. The TAS author may have used these calculations as part of all the RNG manipulations throughtout the run. If they work only for his seeds and set of actions, the calculations will be pretty useless to us. Deducting the formula and steps performed in the video is just the beginning of figuring out how it works, and how useful it actually is.
I haven't found any information outside the video and the nico description on how he does this stuff. For the description, a crappy Google translation says something along the lines of spending 2 weeks to figure out the calculator patterns, and the number of retried runs. Unless someone fluent in Japanese can contact the guy, there's not much else to work with.
Is this worth looking into? Dunno, though if you've RNG'd eggs in G-4, chances are you've used a couple of Poketch apps, namely the Happiness Checker and Coin Flip, to advance the frame a certain number of times. The Journal is a key item in RNG'ing wild Pokemon, and is also used in this TAS to avoid wild encounters. The Poketch calculator itself is used as part of an Action Replay code to modify wild encounters.
However useful it is, I have considered making a start on analysing the video for the formula cstrakm uses and an estimated number of steps that it's performed over, so that anyone interested can try it out. But since I'm lazy and unmotivated it'll take a while, or someone else can do it if they want.
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Post by psptitanfan on Jan 18, 2012 23:37:07 GMT -5
Teflon found this, not me. From what can be seen, it looks like he's inputting complex calculations into the Poketch's calculator app at an inhuman speed whilst cycling in the void. It seems to allow the player to bypass the void's South East walls, and enter the real Sinnoh at certain coordinates, without travelling 65,000 steps to a Fake Sinnoh. Upon saving and resetting in what appears to be a blank void area, it will reappear as the area in real Sinnoh, with partially loaded graphics. Reloading the overworld screen via menu or whatever fixes the graphics. We can see that cstrakm uses this technique three times in his TAS. The first save and reset lands his player on right of the signpost next to Stark Mountain's entrance, to catch the lv55 Rhydon. The second time he uses it lands the player one step left to the entrance of the cave in the middle of Celestial Town, which a Plasma Grunt is normally blocking, to obtain Surf. The third time he uses it is to reload at one step above the Pokemon League entrance. While the first set of calculations appear to be very complex and impossible to perform on a cartridge whilst continuously cycling through the void, the second and third time calculations look much simpler, and provided the same effect can be produced at a much slower pace, all of them could probably be done without emulator tools. There are numerous factors to consider before we can make any use of this though. The TAS is done in a JP version of Diamond which has the E4 Surf glitch. The TAS author may have used these calculations as part of all the RNG manipulations throughtout the run. If they work only for his seeds and set of actions, the calculations will be pretty useless to us. Deducting the formula and steps performed in the video is just the beginning of figuring out how it works, and how useful it actually is. I haven't found any information outside the video and the nico description on how he does this stuff. For the description, a crappy Google translation says something along the lines of spending 2 weeks to figure out the calculator patterns, and the number of retried runs. Unless someone fluent in Japanese can contact the guy, there's not much else to work with. Is this worth looking into? Dunno, though if you've RNG'd eggs in G-4, chances are you've used a couple of Poketch apps, namely the Happiness Checker and Coin Flip, to advance the frame a certain number of times. The Journal is a key item in RNG'ing wild Pokemon, and is also used in this TAS to avoid wild encounters. The Poketch calculator itself is used as part of an Action Replay code to modify wild encounters. However useful it is, I have considered making a start on analysing the video for the formula cstrakm uses and an estimated number of steps that it's performed over, so that anyone interested can try it out. But since I'm lazy and unmotivated it'll take a while, or someone else can do it if they want. Great Job, thanks!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2012 1:32:00 GMT -5
Interesting. But it wouldn't be useful for the same purpose Cstrakm used it since he saved in a MZ, where you can't save in non-jap DP versions. But as it seems to manipulate the "Void frames", it could be useful to manipulate areas which change every time you reset the game, like the 1000N in Eterna Forest's Void (although that one varies only between areas with even-numbered IDs, and HoO didn't appear there, but Spear Pillar did). A bit off-topic: The only possibility of saving in an MZ I've found outside jap version was in Battle Tower's Void, where the MZs allowed you to open the menu and then save. But for some reason, the steps also aren't counted there (step counter doesn't count, Repels never end, Poisoned pokémon doesn't take damage...), so its Void has some data missing or something. But the only two coordinates I've found for there don't work outside my game. But we know there's for sure a way to save in an MZ and get Darkrai/Shaymin earlier.
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Post by ownagemuch on Jan 19, 2012 1:58:37 GMT -5
I thought saving in MZ was what EK was for.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2012 8:50:41 GMT -5
EK always failed in MZ's from non-jap versions lol.
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Post by psptitanfan on Jan 19, 2012 10:59:50 GMT -5
Okay, after my first test I found that I am still hitting that invisible wall after going east....However, maybe it is because I could not hit "enter" quick enough? More info to come as soon after more testing..
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Post by YungCereal on Jan 19, 2012 20:04:48 GMT -5
Is this worth looking into? Dunno, though if you've RNG'd eggs in G-4, chances are you've used a couple of Poketch apps, namely the Happiness Checker and Coin Flip, to advance the frame a certain number of times. The Journal is a key item in RNG'ing wild Pokemon, and is also used in this TAS to avoid wild encounters. The Poketch calculator itself is used as part of an Action Replay code to modify wild encounters. If manipulating the RNG can change the walls in the void, can this be used in the other games (where void exploring was halted by walls) to bypass them perhaps? Just a thought.
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Post by TheDude212 on Jan 19, 2012 21:16:02 GMT -5
Im not sure, but definitely something to look into.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2012 0:03:30 GMT -5
Probably not, since that walls were put there on purpose, I doubt they could "randomly" disappear.
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Brady
[C01:860098]
Posts: 22
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Post by Brady on Jan 21, 2012 15:53:42 GMT -5
*Spam alert* Just like to point out the use of the entry point I discovered. Me. Boom. Sorry, when I see that in videos it always makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. Just felt like sharing. That is all. *End spam*
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X-Sanity
I have a terrible voice.
Posts: 28
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Post by X-Sanity on Jan 21, 2012 16:43:38 GMT -5
Teflon found this, not me. From what can be seen, it looks like he's inputting complex calculations into the Poketch's calculator app at an inhuman speed whilst cycling in the void. It seems to allow the player to bypass the void's South East walls, and enter the real Sinnoh at certain coordinates, without travelling 65,000 steps to a Fake Sinnoh. Upon saving and resetting in what appears to be a blank void area, it will reappear as the area in real Sinnoh, with partially loaded graphics. Reloading the overworld screen via menu or whatever fixes the graphics. Plausible. Wasn't one area found in the void where the locatioon changed when you switched gears? Calculator should change some data so it would be possible to change the void from that. We can see that cstrakm uses this technique three times in his TAS. The first save and reset lands his player on right of the signpost next to Stark Mountain's entrance, to catch the lv55 Rhydon. The second time he uses it lands the player one step left to the entrance of the cave in the middle of Celestial Town, which a Plasma Grunt is normally blocking, to obtain Surf. The third time he uses it is to reload at one step above the Pokemon League entrance. While the first set of calculations appear to be very complex and impossible to perform on a cartridge whilst continuously cycling through the void, the second and third time calculations look much simpler, and provided the same effect can be produced at a much slower pace, all of them could probably be done without emulator tools. Question is if the biking is necessary at all and if it isn't just added for speeding through the game ASAP? There are numerous factors to consider before we can make any use of this though. The TAS is done in a JP version of Diamond which has the E4 Surf glitch. The TAS author may have used these calculations as part of all the RNG manipulations throughtout the run. If they work only for his seeds and set of actions, the calculations will be pretty useless to us. Deducting the formula and steps performed in the video is just the beginning of figuring out how it works, and how useful it actually is. Is this worth looking into? Dunno, though if you've RNG'd eggs in G-4, chances are you've used a couple of Poketch apps, namely the Happiness Checker and Coin Flip, to advance the frame a certain number of times. The Journal is a key item in RNG'ing wild Pokemon, and is also used in this TAS to avoid wild encounters. The Poketch calculator itself is used as part of an Action Replay code to modify wild encounters. But the RNGing was done in the void and he reset afterwards, at least the first time, which should have reset the RNG; should it not?
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Post by mimiroru on Jan 23, 2012 10:09:02 GMT -5
Question is if the biking is necessary at all and if it isn't just added for speeding through the game ASAP? I'm guessing not. The second time you can see that he's running at first, then gets on the bike, and the calculations remain in sync with his steps. But the RNGing was done in the void and he reset afterwards, at least the first time, which should have reset the RNG; should it not? Yeah, and he probably knew which seed he was hitting next. IIRC the seed is determined as soon as you continue from the menu after the title screen. Seeds in G-4 differ depending on the time/date, unless he somehow resets that.
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Post by royboyvdm on Feb 3, 2012 16:17:36 GMT -5
Teflon found this, not me. From what can be seen, it looks like he's inputting complex calculations into the Poketch's calculator app at an inhuman speed whilst cycling in the void. I t seems to allow the player to bypass the void's South East walls, and enter the real Sinnoh at certain coordinates, without travelling 65,000 steps to a Fake Sinnoh. Upon saving and resetting in what appears to be a blank void area, it will reappear as the area in real Sinnoh, with partially loaded graphics. Reloading the overworld screen via menu or whatever fixes the graphics. Great Job, thanks! I don't think this seems to be the case. Hes using an Japanese version which allows you to bypass the South East walls and saving in the Mystery Zone.
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Post by ownagemuch on Feb 3, 2012 20:17:30 GMT -5
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Post by Auburn on Feb 4, 2012 6:08:33 GMT -5
Holy sh*t, Roy! It's like an uber gathering of pro glitchers. O__O
Epic.
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Post by mimiroru on May 21, 2012 12:45:27 GMT -5
Roy's correct. Forget what I said.
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Post by darkrai098 on May 31, 2012 13:55:31 GMT -5
Bearly interesting. but appearently when you use an equation on the calculater there is a sound. the sound is dependent on the answer of the equation so if you put in 2=2 or 1=3 the answer is 4 either way so you will get chimchars sound but only if it is registered in your pokedex. so it could be similer to flipping the coin or the happiness checker only it lets you do it in quick succsession so maybe you need your pokedex filled out for this to work right?
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