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Post by Auburn on Mar 22, 2012 4:54:25 GMT -5
This is an ENTJ that reminds me of you.
(And has a voice on par with Morgan Freeman - especially in other videos)
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Post by Auburn on Mar 22, 2012 18:11:48 GMT -5
This woman was a genius..
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Post by Barack Obama on Mar 23, 2012 11:59:16 GMT -5
Where did your economy rant go? I was thinking about a way to respond intelligently all day, then when I come back, it's gone!
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Post by Auburn on Mar 25, 2012 3:38:22 GMT -5
Drat. I think I re-read it and thought to myself that I wasn't really making sense so I deleted it. But I think I generally said that: The USA economy really pisses me off. Just the thought of having to work so hard to earn the fabrication/imagination of others, and spend my entire life doing so, seems a form of slavery. Since they're the ones controlling currency, they pay you just enough - and make wages for the middle class just enough - to keep you as a cog in their system right where they want you. I also noted how the government doesn't only ignore this but actively supports it. But more than anything, I pointed out that it's ludicrous how we can even have a deficit of something that is imaginary. And that there must be some distortion in our collective delusion for this to happen. Because since money only ever means anything if we decide it does - then we decide what that should mean. Crap, I'm not phrasing any of this properly. Heh, I shouldn't saved the post somewhere before deleting it. Another tangential point I may or may not have added in the first draft was that the US is not a nation lacking natural resources like, say, the deserts of Saudi Arabia. We do have plenty of goods and services (which, when it comes down to it, is where money really matters/materializes out of the abstract) - so if we are imagining that there is a deficit somewhere i have to wonder whether it is real or a collective illusion (or perhaps an instilled illusion).. I've heard a few times that 1% of the population controls 40% of the nation's wealth - compared to 20% a few decades ago, which is still massive. wtf is that?! ...why does any person need so much cash?
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Post by Auburn on Mar 25, 2012 3:55:02 GMT -5
Basically, the Neoliberalism philosophy has given birth to an economy where we are all treated as pawns in the chess game of a small elite group of corporations which manage large chains of stores and banks -- and by extension also are the ones that hand out jobs -- so that our standard of living is designed by the plan of these corporations... and they use that to create a middle class that by design stays within a range of income suited for their corporation's overall growth needs -- while reeling in loads of money up to the top. A type of slavery - keeping people in a position where they can support them, when in reality they have more than enough money to fix our economic issues if they wanted to.
Bastards.
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Post by winmaster on Mar 25, 2012 11:15:44 GMT -5
But money really isn't just a "fabrication." Yes, it is true that the bills we use to pay for good and services only have value because the government says they have value, but that's really all it takes. You go to work. You get money. You spend that money. You get goods and services. So really, you aren't working for money, you are working for the things you use that money to get. Paper money is a hell of a lot more convenient than trading pigs for sheep. And as far as paying use "just enough," goes, that's called supply and demand. We work for "just enough" because if they don't someone else will, and then we won't have anything.
What did you want them to do?
Money has value because we all agree that it has value. When the government takes more stuff than they have money to pay for, we have a deficit.
So you want everyone to collectively change what money represents? What do you mean?
You're right, our problem isn't natural resources. Our problem is cheap labor. People here think they're entitled to things they're not. $7.25 an hour minimum wage? That's all fine and dandy until the people in China decide to work for far less, so much less that it is cheaper to ship labor across the ocean that to produce goods here. Ultimately, the American people are greedy, and until they get over that our economy isn't going to get better.
Nobody needs that much cash, its all supply and demand. We gave that 1% all of that money when we decided to buy stuff from them or the companies that hired them to do their jobs. Don't like it? Fine, stop buying things from large corporations. Reduce the demand for those people and they will make less.
That's the way it works. Some end up on top, others on the bottom. This isn't a conspiracy. Everything is based on supply and demand. We control the economy, and we control our government. The fact that we are unhappy just means that we have been doing it wrong.
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Post by Auburn on Mar 25, 2012 22:59:51 GMT -5
Some good points (pretty much why i took down my post the first time)
Though, sure we can say we create the problem ourselves and can also solve it ourselves, but awareness of the issue is a prerequisite to changing it. =/
We are not taught how our economy truly works in school, and only those who really dig for it will find how things really operate -- and that's far too small a percentage to overturn the tide. Yet, if everyone *was* aware, I bet the majority would want to change things; it is quite simply an issue of ignorance.
Companies are happier off with people not knowing and just being content where they are. And don't get me wrong, we're better off than other countries but we would be so much better off without neoliberalism creating an elitism market.
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Post by winmaster on Mar 26, 2012 21:58:32 GMT -5
Yes, ignorance is another problem. So many Americans want things changed, yet they don't know what to change because they have no idea how an economy (or our government, for that matter) works. The real question is how do we fix this? Economics classes are taught in most high schools, but so few students care. They'd rather complain about our problems rather than learn to solve them. You can make someone sit in a desk and listen until they turn 18, but unless they really care, they aren't going to learn anything. The end result is a population that believes that high government spending and low taxes are sustainable. It's fantasy that needs to be corrected, otherwise nothing will ever be fixed.
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Post by TheHmmmm on Mar 31, 2012 21:39:41 GMT -5
Yes, ignorance is another problem. So many Americans want things changed, yet they don't know what to change because they have no idea how an economy (or our government, for that matter) works. The real question is how do we fix this? Economics classes are taught in most high schools, but so few students care. They'd rather complain about our problems rather than learn to solve them. You can make someone sit in a desk and listen until they turn 18, but unless they really care, they aren't going to learn anything. The end result is a population that believes that high government spending and low taxes are sustainable. It's fantasy that needs to be corrected, otherwise nothing will ever be fixed. As someone who has been and will be taking economics classes for a while in college, I'm going to say that my academic education about economics, particularly macroeconomics, seems pretty suspicious. I'm taught all of these things about fractional reserve banking, keynesian multipliers, money supply/creation, monetarism etc. and I am told that they all relate to one another in a neat order. I get the feeling that leaving college (even though I have no intention to use this economic knowledge) I would find my knowledge to be very useless and that the economy is far less organized and tidy than my classes theorize. Just look at the division on theory. We have the Keynesians, the Neo-keynesians, the classical liberals of Hayek, the Marxists, etc. all claiming to know the path to prosperity. I've come to respect engineers. At least they can all agree how to generally build a sturdy fucking bridge. Economists can't even agree as to whether government spending aids the economy. As far as the middle class struggle is concerned, it's always been a problem that's magnified when economies plummet. Fact: the middle class is hurt far more when we hit the "bust" than the wealthy. Everyone is sedate and content with their smaller portions when the economy is placated, but destabilize everything and suddenly the "99%" realize that there's a group in a nice bubble of privilege completely unaffected by their problems. What Auburn is describing is the concept of wage slavery. It's the idea that we are forced to work in order to survive, no different than any slave would be. I'm selling myself into a (hopefully) well-paying career so that I can live below my means and retire. That's my ultimate goal in life: retirement. I've given up on the social revolution that would balance the scales. My goal now is to just buy my way out of the game. I, nor do I believe anyone else, can't tell you how to balance the economy fairly. We could raise the abysmal capital gains tax, regulate unstable industries, tax the hell out of inheritances etc. but I don't know if that would really fix it all. You'd think we'd have learned from the industrial revolution not to marginalize the quality of life of the majority, but clearly we haven't. I'm throwing in the towel.
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Post by Barack Obama on Mar 31, 2012 23:40:50 GMT -5
That's my ultimate goal in life: retirement. I've given up on the social revolution that would balance the scales. My goal now is to just buy my way out of the game. That's the saddest thing I've read or heard in a few months. And I don't mean sad in the same way as being an involuntary virgin at age 40. I mean, puppy with 3 injured legs trying to walk, and then breaking his 4th, sad.
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Post by winmaster on Apr 1, 2012 13:17:59 GMT -5
Of course not, no science can predict the outcome of any situation with 100% accuracy. It is nice to have a basic understanding of how an economy works, though. There are people out there who legitly think that printing more money is the solution to our problems; they can't grasp the idea of scarcity. I'm not saying that Econ classes teach the key to understanding the universe, but at least they give us some ideas of what might work vs. what definitely will not.
Well, Economics is a younger science than Physics, so there are many more unknowns. Also, depending on the bridge and the engineers, I wouldn't be surprised to see some heated debates about that too.
When have people ever been able to survive without some kind of work? Unfortunately, food does not just fall from the sky. You can either to get it yourself, or make some money and pay someone else to do it for you. Either way, you have done work to survive.
I don't know, involuntary virgin at age 40 is pretty fucking sad.
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Post by TheHmmmm on Apr 3, 2012 19:40:42 GMT -5
That's my ultimate goal in life: retirement. I've given up on the social revolution that would balance the scales. My goal now is to just buy my way out of the game. That's the saddest thing I've read or heard in a few months. And I don't mean sad in the same way as being an involuntary virgin at age 40. I mean, puppy with 3 injured legs trying to walk, and then breaking his 4th, sad. Hey man, how's a puppy gonna make a living? That's what I fuckin' thought. No seriously though. Why wait for things to change? Why not game the system now and try to win. I'm not saying I won't have enjoyable times, I'm just saying my economic goal is to retire. I'm still finding plenty of things to enjoy in life, I just don't want to work to fix this shit. Especially since there's an entire party of people who have been convinced to vote AGAINST their own self-interest.
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